Comments on: The Line of Fire http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/ by Shannon K. O'Neil Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:50:19 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: pc http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15539 pc Fri, 29 May 2009 04:44:22 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15539 Hi Shannon, Thanks for the heads up. Thats a great site from ICESI. One thing that probably explains the difference is that ICESI's rate comes from homicidio doloso as well as homicidio culposo, but the latter is essentially manslaughter or any other crime in which someone is killed without intent. Unless I'm wrong, most murder rates don't include accidents. Hi Shannon,

Thanks for the heads up. Thats a great site from ICESI. One thing that probably explains the difference is that ICESI’s rate comes from homicidio doloso as well as homicidio culposo, but the latter is essentially manslaughter or any other crime in which someone is killed without intent. Unless I’m wrong, most murder rates don’t include accidents.

]]> By: Randy Borum http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15536 Randy Borum Fri, 29 May 2009 02:16:36 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15536 Dr. O'Neil: Very nicely done. Thoughtful, scholarly, but accessible. I even felt obliged to summarize it on my blog as well (http://globalcrim.blogspot.com/2009/05/murder-capital-of-world.html) Not as good as your original, no doubt. -Randy Borum Dr. O’Neil:

Very nicely done. Thoughtful, scholarly, but accessible.

I even felt obliged to summarize it on my blog as well (http://globalcrim.blogspot.com/2009/05/murder-capital-of-world.html)

Not as good as your original, no doubt.

-Randy Borum

]]> By: revbob22 http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15534 revbob22 Thu, 28 May 2009 15:48:15 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15534 Just to add something. About a month ago I actually watched as the Director of the CIPC (roughly the FBI in Venezuelan terms) state on TV that in his estimation about 30-35% of crimes are being committed by the police themselves. The homicide rate is just the tip of the iceberg. Many "express kidnappings" are ocurring every day. THis is where you are held for a few hours until your family can get what the kidnappers figure is a reasonable sum in a very short time frame, usually 4-6 hours. Their modus operandi suggests a high degree of coordination and planning, which is not what your run of the mill criminal usually does. It is suggestive of para police/para military training. A very large number of these kidnappings also go unreported to police, for the very reasons you mention in the article such as politicized tribunals, etc. Just to add something. About a month ago I actually watched as the Director of the CIPC (roughly the FBI in Venezuelan terms) state on TV that in his estimation about 30-35% of crimes are being committed by the police themselves.

The homicide rate is just the tip of the iceberg.

Many “express kidnappings” are ocurring every day. THis is where you are held for a few hours until your family can get what the kidnappers figure is a reasonable sum in a very short time frame, usually 4-6 hours.

Their modus operandi suggests a high degree of coordination and planning, which is not what your run of the mill criminal usually does. It is suggestive of para police/para military training.

A very large number of these kidnappings also go unreported to police, for the very reasons you mention in the article such as politicized tribunals, etc.

]]> By: Shannon http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15533 Shannon Thu, 28 May 2009 14:31:00 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15533 Dear PC, Thank you for your comment. The data I used for this article comes from national government sources. However, government webpages often don't make this data readily available, so I went through local think-tanks and universities in order to get to the governments' numbers. In the case of Mexico, I went through the Mexican security think tank ICESI which has this very useful table with homicide rates for the past 10 years (http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas/denuncias_homicidio_1997_2007.pdf). In the case of Venezuela, the Universidad Metropolitana has a great Powerpoint presentation with extensive data (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accesoalajusticia.org%2Fdocumentos%2Fgetbindata.php%3Fdcfid%3D137&ei=bZgeSoO5Goy-M5rwlfQF&usg=AFQjCNHtajwC7OPfapVLVtzxr-BwyF2_qA&sig2=csMEy92yb_Zdpf7KVFnGWA). Best, Shannon Dear PC,

Thank you for your comment. The data I used for this article comes from national government sources. However, government webpages often don’t make this data readily available, so I went through local think-tanks and universities in order to get to the governments’ numbers.

In the case of Mexico, I went through the Mexican security think tank ICESI which has this very useful table with homicide rates for the past 10 years (http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas/denuncias_homicidio_1997_2007.pdf).

In the case of Venezuela, the Universidad Metropolitana has a great Powerpoint presentation with extensive data (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accesoalajusticia.org%2Fdocumentos%2Fgetbindata.php%3Fdcfid%3D137&ei=bZgeSoO5Goy-M5rwlfQF&usg=AFQjCNHtajwC7OPfapVLVtzxr-BwyF2_qA&sig2=csMEy92yb_Zdpf7KVFnGWA).

Best,

Shannon

]]> By: Shannon http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15531 Shannon Thu, 28 May 2009 12:50:13 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15531 I agree that low police salaries contribute to crime levels - something that Venezuela shares with other countries in the region, but which is particularly acute due to some of the highest inflation rates in the hemisphere. Thanks for adding that factor in. I agree that low police salaries contribute to crime levels – something that Venezuela shares with other countries in the region, but which is particularly acute due to some of the highest inflation rates in the hemisphere. Thanks for adding that factor in.

]]> By: H. S. http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15530 H. S. Thu, 28 May 2009 11:08:48 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15530 Nice analysis of this issue. I was surprised, though, to see that you didn't think that the inflation of the last decade mattered: it brought down police salaries in real terms, increased the use of the black market for dollars (which can be associated with crime) and otherwise distorted economic incentives... Nice analysis of this issue. I was surprised, though, to see that you didn’t think that the inflation of the last decade mattered: it brought down police salaries in real terms, increased the use of the black market for dollars (which can be associated with crime) and otherwise distorted economic incentives…

]]> By: pc http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15527 pc Thu, 28 May 2009 03:02:29 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15527 whoops that link was broken, but this one works: http://www.milenio.com/node/131117 whoops that link was broken, but this one works:

http://www.milenio.com/node/131117

]]> By: pc http://www.latintelligence.com/2009/05/27/the-line-of-fire/comment-page-1/#comment-15526 pc Thu, 28 May 2009 02:47:19 +0000 http://www.latintelligence.com/?p=398#comment-15526 Hi Shannon just out of curiosity what did you use for your Mexico murder rate? The most recent thing that looks official that I've seen is this http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2008/12/12/tiene-mexico-10-9-asesinatos-por-cada-100-mil-habitantes-al-ano-pnud which would make Venezuela's rate more than four times as large. Do you have another source that shows a higher rate? Hi Shannon just out of curiosity what did you use for your Mexico murder rate? The most recent thing that looks official that I’ve seen is this

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2008/12/12/tiene-mexico-10-9-asesinatos-por-cada-100-mil-habitantes-al-ano-pnud

which would make Venezuela’s rate more than four times as large. Do you have another source that shows a higher rate?

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